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 Post subject: PLEASE READ: PVP in front of NPC Guards
Unread postPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:27 pm 
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DM side, we have noticed a trend of PVP in civilised areas and in front of guards.

I am quoting here an extract from the PVP rules.

all_distorted wrote:
[*]Screenshots sent to the DM Staff clearly showing any PC initiating PvP in front of guards (FAI, BG, any MAP with an NPC guard on it) equals either a hanging and/or simple perma-strike against that PC, unless a DM is present to oversee the PvP conflict. This is non-negotiable.


Please take note of this. This is a rule in effect and we will be enforcing it going forward. As such PVP is metagaming the NPCs.

This means if your PC attacks someone in a town, or in the Farmlands of Baldur's Gate, or inside or before the gates of the Friendly Arm Inn, without DM supervision, and someone sends us a screenshot of your PC initiating combat, your PC could (in fact, its likely) receive a permastrike.

EDIT: Note that RP'ed PVP, such as emotes indicating violence, may well fall within this definition. Its best to consider it does.

Also, lawful duelling in Baldurs Gate Farmlands (IE an honour duel by consent, or non-lethal sparring) would NOT be covered by this.

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 Post subject: Re: PLEASE READ: PVP in front of NPC Guards
Unread postPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:34 pm 
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Amended.

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 Post subject: Re: PLEASE READ: PVP in front of NPC Guards
Unread postPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:32 pm 
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. . .PVP is metagaming the NPCs.



Should make it so that when someone clicks the PVP button, all NPC's become hostile LOL..

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 Post subject: Re: PLEASE READ: PVP in front of NPC Guards
Unread postPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:49 pm 
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To clarify, is that anywhere in a map that has NPC guards or only places which are close to NPC guards?


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 Post subject: Re: PLEASE READ: PVP in front of NPC Guards
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:15 am 
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Anywhere. Fist maps represent patrolled areas. Note, a supervising DM might well rule guards are unaware of uninvolved for some reason, but such is a DM decision.

Exception is FAI where the guards only care about what's inside the walls and before the gate. PVP shouldn't happen near the OSR Knights either.

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 Post subject: Re: PLEASE READ: PVP in front of NPC Guards
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:13 am 
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How does this translate to the Underdark? Citizens of Sshamath are protected from grievous harm by the Mythal, but what about non-citizens? What about wizards fighting for standing, which is fairly common among Drow wizards?

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 Post subject: Re: PLEASE READ: PVP in front of NPC Guards
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:22 am 
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How are people confused by this? The DMs say don't PvP in front of guards without DM supervision. That's it. Don't do it. No point looking for loopholes.

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 Post subject: Re: PLEASE READ: PVP in front of NPC Guards
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:18 am 
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This is never going to stop. It will continue until the server dies. (if it ever does) At this point I think the DMs have made enough rules that they have forced themselves into a POLICE roll. People will always be turds about things so either you have little rules to none or you have multiple rules that are enforced with extreme prejudice. At this point DMs either need to designate a DM that is their ENFORCER to do just that and he/she has volunteered to do so and fully understands the qualifications of their job, get rid of rules that cause people to argue. No rule, no argument. Nothing to argue over that way. Or they can do as Alezka Silverstone suggested and just make NPC Guards attack hostile parties.

To clarify there are going to be either DAILY or WEEKLY HANGINGS with this rule. So either we need to start seeing this ICly or it is still OOC consequences that really have no meaning and destroys RP in the end. Either way people are going to keep doing it so throwing fits over it does no good from a players perspective as it should carry IC consequences. Being a rule lawyer from a players perspective just ruins the atmosphere for others IC and IG. Just screen shot it and move forward with the RP and let the law breakers hang themselves.

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 Post subject: Re: PLEASE READ: PVP in front of NPC Guards
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:23 am 
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Alezka Silverstone wrote:
Quote:
. . .PVP is metagaming the NPCs.



Should make it so that when someone clicks the PVP button, all NPC's become hostile LOL..


This would be ... Awesome!

And ... make it so they remain hostile until the server reset!

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 Post subject: Re: PLEASE READ: PVP in front of NPC Guards
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:29 am 
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Calodan wrote:
This is never going to stop. It will continue until the server dies. (if it ever does) At this point I think the DMs have made enough rules that they have forced themselves into a POLICE roll. People will always be turds about things so either you have little rules to none or you have multiple rules that are enforced with extreme prejudice. At this point DMs either need to designate a DM that is their ENFORCER to do just that and he/she has volunteered to do so and fully understands the qualifications of their job, get rid of rules that cause people to argue. No rule, no argument. Nothing to argue over that way. Or they can do as Alezka Silverstone suggested and just make NPC Guards attack hostile parties.

To clarify there are going to be either DAILY or WEEKLY HANGINGS with this rule. So either we need to start seeing this ICly or it is still OOC consequences that really have no meaning and destroys RP in the end. Either way people are going to keep doing it so throwing fits over it does no good from a players perspective as it should carry IC consequences. Being a rule lawyer from a players perspective just ruins the atmosphere for others IC and IG. Just screen shot it and move forward with the RP and let the law breakers hang themselves.



If they enforce it. I bet my french canadian rear that after 2 strikes, a lvl 30 breing forced to RcR, loosiong half of his xp... It'll make people think twice.

Also, make it that they loose XP and gold and item if they get permakilled by being dumb infront of guards?<--- That'll make those powerbuilder/grinders (or anyone) regret instigating anything.


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 Post subject: Re: PLEASE READ: PVP in front of NPC Guards
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:49 am 
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Deathgrowl wrote:
How are people confused by this? The DMs say don't PvP in front of guards without DM supervision. That's it. Don't do it. No point looking for loopholes.

Uhm, because the climate and norm is very different in the Underdark as compared to the surface. Drow historicly doesn't give a rats arse about a Drow killing another Drow. It is part of their culture and way of life to fight among themselves for power and standing.

I have a very hard time imagining a Drow guard caring at all about such feuds, except if the structures of the city would be damaged by it; or the fight is of such magnitude that it threatens the stability of (part of) the city and Drow way of life beyond what, in the eyes of a vast majority of Drow, is considered an inconsequential disturbance.

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 Post subject: Re: PLEASE READ: PVP in front of NPC Guards
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:50 am 
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Or just set the area to no-p v p . Since this seems a mechanical fix

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 Post subject: Re: PLEASE READ: PVP in front of NPC Guards
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:54 am 
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7threalm wrote:
Or just set the area to no-p v p . Since this seems a mechanical fix


That won't work. A simple example is the Baldur's Gate Farmlands north, where there's an arena. Plus it isn't said that there can't be any PvP in the sight of guards. It just says that if there is to be PvP, it should be under the supervision of a DM. Setting the area to no PvP will eliminate that possibility entirely.

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 Post subject: Re: PLEASE READ: PVP in front of NPC Guards
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:05 am 
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What about simply giving more guards what the one at the Chionthar bridge has - draw a weapon in radius of them triggers the warning, ignore too long and arrested and ported to a cell for a bit.

So for example draw weapons to PVP within a certain radius of the FAI guard they come over demanding you put the weapon away. Fail to respond arrested and ported to a cell for bit.

Might not catch magic or fist fights, but should result in guards halting much PVP in an somewhat IC way without DM oversight, keeping it more IC, available to happen without a DM present and would only trigger in appropriate areas where you were in sight of guards?

Just a thought, sure there are plenty of flaws it would have, but might help some and keep it more IC.

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 Post subject: Re: PLEASE READ: PVP in front of NPC Guards
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:17 am 
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I think it is a great idea to set guards to react hostile to pvp within sight of them. NOT in the area, but within sight of them. Just makes sense, a guard sees a disturbance, engages the parties involved and puts them down (if possible).

It would certainly force people to engage in pvp most carefully, and choose more reasonable places for ambushes and violence. You wouldn't punch out someone you hate in front of a cop would you?

Don't look for loopholes if you want to pvp someone, plan it properly, like your character would. Choose the place and time, have an exit strategy, wear a disguise...proper rp. What's so hard about that?

Having a serious deterrent from the guards doesn't need to stop you from rp'ing a pvp kill around guards, but should make you consider the consequences very carefully.

If this doesn't work for you, just use your fists, brawling isn't a hangable offence, just jail right?

**also like the idea of guards reacting to drawn weapons whenever you are in range. I guarantee someone running around with a sword would make me nervous too!

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