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 Post subject: Guidelines for player run trials in Baldur's Gate
Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:09 am 
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Assuming CONSENT by all players involved.

NOTE: this is only for trials within Baldur's Gate. Currently there are no guidelines for player run trials in AMN, and in Candlekeep, trials are currently at the discretion of the player factions (with banning entry to Candlekeep as the highest possible punishment outside DM intervention).

Trials may be setup by players at the temple of Tyr without a DM present under the following conditions.





FIRST: send a PM to the DM team requesting the trial. Include the following information

1. WHO IS CHARGED

2. WHAT ARE THE CHARGES

3. Brief summary of the apprehension.

AFTER you have DM approval to hold the trial, courts may be assembled thusly




JUDGE AND PROSECUTOR


The judge and/or prosecutor can be played by either a member of The Radiant Heart, or the Order of the Silver Rose (or IF approved by a DM). Obviously the same player can't play both (so you need 2 players).

The Judges Role is not to judge guild or innocence, but to main order in the proceedings.

The prosecutors role is to present the case against the accused to the Jurors (see below).



DEFENDANT


The defendant may either plead their own case or secure an advocate of their choosing.



JURORS


Trials will be tried by 6 jurors selected by the Judge (of those present).

2 of the Jurors must be from either The Radiant Heart or The Order of the Silver Rose.

Note, this means that the trial most have a total of 4 PC's from either the RH or the OSR to take place.

The job of the jurors is to decide guilt or innocence on the charges. NOT TO DETERMINE PUNISHMENT. We assume that the verdict and the blessings of Tyr are then handed over to the Flaming Fist... who will then serve punishment (via a DM).

Once the trial is finished. Please send a screenshot of the Jurors verdict to the DM/ADM usergroups. If found guilty, the guilty will be jailed until their sentence can be carried out (which should be done within 24 hours).



EDIT: The idea is simple. Prosecutor and Defendant present their case to the Jurors, Judge maintains order and procedures.

Witness may be called, examined first by the one who calls the witness, then cross-examined by the other (defendant-prosecutor).

For serious crimes, 5/6 jurors are needed to find the defendant guilty.

For lesser Crimes 4/6

If players are creative, they may submit requests for PC run trials for civil disputes

Obviously, the Duke's reserve the right to carry out sentences despite juror findings, or offer clemency (after all this is a Duchy).

Obviously, all of this is to be carried out IC (DM requests can even be written as petitions to the dukes)







Please note, all of the above is subject to repeal or change. For any given case, any of these conditions (such as juror makeup) can only be altered with the approval of a DM.

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 Post subject: Re: Guidelines for player run trials in Baldur's Gate
Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:20 am 
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Now that is a neat system. where's the "like" button geez...


how do you go to jail, waiting for the sentence to be issued/carried out ?

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 Post subject: Re: Guidelines for player run trials in Baldur's Gate
Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:26 am 
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*presses love button*

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 Post subject: Re: Guidelines for player run trials in Baldur's Gate
Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:27 am 
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This is a bad idea. Even with consent, you're going to have loads and loads of drama to deal with.

And you're favouring particular factions with this.

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 Post subject: Re: Guidelines for player run trials in Baldur's Gate
Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:38 am 
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There are two stages for player consent if I understand the process listed above:

1) Apprehension (suspected player must consent to PvP or go along willingly); and
2) Trial (accused player must consent to trial).

Is this correct?

I'm intrigued. It's an interesting opportunity for RP. I am curious how this is different from Flaming Fist PCs. It seems like the potential drama or problems are the same or at least similar.


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 Post subject: Re: Guidelines for player run trials in Baldur's Gate
Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:53 pm 
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The consent is by players, so OOC. I read it as a player can't have their character forced to stand before a trial such stated here.

I believe its different from the Flamning Fist PCs because the player can object and the punishment is not decided by players but by DMs. Actually, those two points make it very different.

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 Post subject: Re: Guidelines for player run trials in Baldur's Gate
Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:56 pm 
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Deathgrowl wrote:
This is a bad idea. Even with consent, you're going to have loads and loads of drama to deal with.

And you're favouring particular factions with this.


+1

What if it is an RH or OSR member accused?


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 Post subject: Re: Guidelines for player run trials in Baldur's Gate
Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:13 pm 
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Then you ought to take it to the magistrates of Baldurs's Gate. They will dispense justice as the lawful authority appointed by the Dukes. (in the form of the DMs)

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 Post subject: Re: Guidelines for player run trials in Baldur's Gate
Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:15 pm 
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Rasael wrote:
Then you ought to take it to the magistrates of Baldurs's Gate. They will dispense justice as the lawful authority appointed by the Dukes. (in the form of the DMs)

Sort of a Supreme Court as far as Canadian law goes anyway. :P

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 Post subject: Re: Guidelines for player run trials in Baldur's Gate
Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:16 pm 
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Would it not be more lore-correct to only use tyrian members of those orders as judges? They should, lore-wise at least, be more fluent in the Law than anyone else.

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 Post subject: Re: Guidelines for player run trials in Baldur's Gate
Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:23 pm 
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It is different then the FF PRC.

- This system gives the players no enforcement power (unlike the FF PRC).

- There is a DM check before the trial and a DM determines and execute the sentence. If anything... this is a check to allow players protection from us :twisted:

- These guidelines say nothing about apprehension, so that is to be handled as it always has been.

- There should be no PVP issues involved in a trial. Show me a screenshot of violence in the temple of Tyr and we skip the trial and go strait to the noose.

- Players not consenting to a PC trial for violating laws does not let them off the hook. DM's can still enforce IC laws through NPC's. This is merely an option.

- As for the favoring of factions. The two factions in question here have a lore-based and RP established status in the city. Both their faction and religious character give them a place in the aristocracy.
---Also, they are supposed to represent Lawfulness, and their presence is intended to stem corrupting influences.
---The goodly factions are expected to to some degree police themselves internally for corruption. If blatant public displays of corruption are displayed by the factions which they are unable or unwilling to police internally, higher authorities may get involved (dealing with this in itself provides rich potential for RP).
---Does this mean that there is no potential for corruption... of course not... and if you are Rpers worth your salt maybe there will be some... hopefully dealt with IC and not through OOC whining.
---Finally, the door is open for other factions to play various roles in the in-game legal system in the future. Maybe merchants, maybe other authority-like factions.


I've run several Trial events in the past, and they all went very well. I also noticed that most could probably be executed largely by players, with a few DM controls in place. If it ends up being a problem, we'll scrap it, but I think giving players this OPTION may be good for RP.

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 Post subject: Re: Guidelines for player run trials in Baldur's Gate
Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:26 pm 
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Any rights of audience for defence advocates? :)

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 Post subject: Re: Guidelines for player run trials in Baldur's Gate
Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:36 pm 
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I'm making a sleazy lawyer type of character to give those poor souls a fighting chance in such a biased judicial system.

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 Post subject: Re: Guidelines for player run trials in Baldur's Gate
Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:51 pm 
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Can we request trial by combat? :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Guidelines for player run trials in Baldur's Gate
Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:06 pm 
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We might need rules of evidence!

And whats the standard of proof? Beyond reasonable doubt?

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